Carl Sagan explained and demonstrated it in a very accessible manner.
Lady Zombie
JoinedPosts by Lady Zombie
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42
What's the official stand on aliens
by Eh indo the jw's officially have a stand on whether there is or can be intelligent physical life outside our planet?
would contact from or evidence of alien life fit in to what jw's believe and teach?
have they paved the way for the possibility that life may be found elsewhere in our solar system - intelligent or otherwise?
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42
What's the official stand on aliens
by Eh indo the jw's officially have a stand on whether there is or can be intelligent physical life outside our planet?
would contact from or evidence of alien life fit in to what jw's believe and teach?
have they paved the way for the possibility that life may be found elsewhere in our solar system - intelligent or otherwise?
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Lady Zombie
Oops, I forgot to give you a link.
http://www.setileague.org/general/drake.htm
If you Google 'Drake Equation' you find tons more!
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What's the official stand on aliens
by Eh indo the jw's officially have a stand on whether there is or can be intelligent physical life outside our planet?
would contact from or evidence of alien life fit in to what jw's believe and teach?
have they paved the way for the possibility that life may be found elsewhere in our solar system - intelligent or otherwise?
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Lady Zombie
I'm not sure if the organization has made any definite statements either way. My guess though is that they will say something like no one knows except Jehovah and how JWs shouldn't dwell on the question because it may take away from godly devotion (i.e. believing anything and everything the GB says).
Although I flirt with disaster by doing this, I always love to engage a JW, especially an elder, in a discussion about possible extraterrestrial life.
My father's best friend is an elder and he piped up once and said how he doesn't believe that there is any other life except us "because it isn't mentioned in the Bible."
I asked him if he ever heard of the Drake Equation. He hadn't. I asked him if he belived the universe to be astronomically huge. He did believe that and pointed out how that should be proof of Jehovah and how mighty he is.
I then showed him how statistically, the possibility is great that there are other civilizations out there. The numbers support it!
N = R* f p n e f l f i f c L
where,
- N = The number of communicative civilizations
- R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
- f p = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
- n e = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
- f l= The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
- f i = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
- f c = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
- L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations
I then quickly pointed out, that even if there were, they're so far away from us that it is highly unlikely humankind will ever encounter them.
Unless of course they, or we, figure out how to cross vast distances in space/time, and actually do it.
You should have seen the look on the elder's face!!!!!! It was priceless. The other JWs around within ear shot (my folks included) were absolutely aghast. I was chided later by my folks not to "use my secular education to provoke."
WELL, I HAD A POINT DAMMIT!!!!!!!
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75
Believer, Agnostic or Atheist?
by lfcviking ini am curious, what amount people on this board from their experiences of being a baptised & active jw and their subsequent exit from the jw org (for whatever reason or reasons) are now either agnostic, atheist or do some actually still believe in god?.
your honest answers please.. lfcv.
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Lady Zombie
Definitely atheist!
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Lady Zombie
I have here two pieces of fruit. One is a nice crisp apple and the other is a nice juicy orange.
Which is superior?
I attribute nearly all problems men and women have in relating to one another and solving the equality issue to the fucking Abrahamic faiths. Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam all share in the subjugation of women.
The god of the Old Testament, as Richard Dawkins so eloquently put it,
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
And don't even get me started on that fucking misogynistic, gynophobic asshole, the apostle Paul!
It is hard to argue that our ideals (here in the Western world for instance) about the socially accepted gender roles of men and women are not based, in large part, on the Christian bible.
Yes it is true that women, in general, are smaller and don't possess the same physical strength as men. This however does not make them inferior and here is where I think a lot of men assume that it does. Because men in general tend to have greater physical strength, it is assumed that they also are more intelligent and superior overall.
You need to have surgery. Two doctors are available for you to choose from, a man who graduated with grades and performance that put him smack in the middle of his class, or a woman who graduated at the top of her class. Which will you choose? You chose the woman?! Why did you do such a silly thing?! After all, everyone knows that women are inferior! Well, try telling that to the person about to go under the knife with a mediocre male surgeon.
Granted that is an oversimplified and somewhat inflammatory analogy, but it does make a point.
Should women force their way into occupations where brute strength is a crucial component, like firefighting? Depends. Can the female candidate pass the physical strength and fitness test on the same level as the male candidates (like carrying 100 lbs up a ladder)? Probably not and therefore shouldn't force that occupation to accomodate her.
A lot of people think that even academically women don't perform as well as men. I ask though is that really the case, or is that the result of social conditioning and expectation?
Studies have been done that suggest girls and boys are not treated equally in the classroom in subjects like math and science. Boys are encouraged to excel in math and science and are favored in these subjects in various subtle ways like favoring boys in class discussions and apathy towards girls.
Hell, just walk down a toy aisle in a store and tell me that there isn't some pernicious social conditioning at work! Some little boys actually want to play with dolls and some little girls might actually want to play with trucks but instead what is pushed at them?
Well anyway, I didn't mean to go off on quite a tangent. It just makes me mad that we're still struggling with gender equality. Especially since most of it stems from norms directly influenced by religion.
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So.....when do y'all think it'll all come crashing down around their ears?
by Lady Zombie inhow long do you think they can keep it up before even the happily brainwashed will be able to recognize that the whole thing is a bust?.
another 5 years?
i was thinking about the whole stance that when "the world" declares "peace and security", then "the end" will come.. we all know the jws just love earthquakers, hurricanes, tsunamis, 9/11s, wars, etc.
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Lady Zombie
Hahahaha
You know, everytime I think about JWs and the society, I keep falling into this trap;
[to myself] "Logically how can....." or "How can they reasonably....."
And then I have to stop and remind myself about whom I'm speaking of.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AND LOGIC AND REASON WHEN IT COMES TO THE JWS!!!!!!
Silly silly me!
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Lady Zombie
But can you prove Pop Tarts are delicious?
Tricky!
Proving the existance of Pop Tarts is a TAP (temporary agnosticism in practice) and can be resolved quite easily because a Pop Tart is tangible and its existance can be affirmed by many.
Proving they're delicious is a PAP (permanent agnosticism in practice). A PAP is unanswerable and ones belief in the deliciousness can be placed anywhere on a spectrum of possibilities. From 'I know with 100% certainty that Pop Tarts are delicious' to 'I know with 100% certainty Pop Tarts are not delicious.'
Is my sense of deliciousness the same as your deliciousness? We can collect evidence for or against Pop Tart deliciousness until the cows come home, we won't be any closer to an answer as to the universal deliciousness of Pop Tarts!
Pop Tarts......an excercise in agnosticism!
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So.....when do y'all think it'll all come crashing down around their ears?
by Lady Zombie inhow long do you think they can keep it up before even the happily brainwashed will be able to recognize that the whole thing is a bust?.
another 5 years?
i was thinking about the whole stance that when "the world" declares "peace and security", then "the end" will come.. we all know the jws just love earthquakers, hurricanes, tsunamis, 9/11s, wars, etc.
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Lady Zombie
How long do you think they can keep it up before even the happily brainwashed will be able to recognize that the whole thing is a bust?
Another 5 years? 10?
I was thinking about the whole stance that when "the world" declares "peace and security", then "the end" will come.
We all know the JWs just love earthquakers, hurricanes, tsunamis, 9/11s, wars, etc. It proves their point about the end coming soon. Recently, a friend (non jw) and I were talking about the war in Iraq and how it probably won't end anytime soon. And even if it does, the majority of the Islamic world is pissed off at the West and vice versa so it is conceivable that even if the Iraq war ends, new skirmishes will pop up.
And that's just the Islamic world. But anyway, world politics isn't what this thread is about.
"Peace and security" is a hell of a long way off so the society is going to have to contend with more "annoited" dying off and the R&F noticing this.
So what will the solution be? More "new light?" Will a whole bunch of "annoited" suddenly turn "apostate" thus necessitating a whole new crop (i.e. younger) of "annoited" to pop up allowing the society to hold on to stance that the annoited generation will not pass away?
They've gotten away with it for a long time now with "new light" and stricter control and censorship but eventually there will have to come a time when they won't be able to do it any longer. Oh sure, a few die hards will always hang in there. My folks for one probably. I remember my mother tisk-tisking at those who left during the '75 shake up. "How sad. They didn't put enough faith in Jehovah's organization. Proper food at the proper time. Obviously we weren't meant to know until now. Jehovah allowed this to weed out unfaithfulness."
Sheesh.
5 years? That would put us in 2013. 10 years? We'll be in 2018. 12 years? That will put us solidly in 2020! Can they still get away with screaming "Armageddon is coming soon!" ?
I hold out hope that those I care about will wake up soon, but unfortunately, I can't hold my breath.
When do you think the ol' Watchtower will come crashing down?
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Lady Zombie
Thing is, you can prove Pop Tarts exist. The proof is in the toasting.
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37
For the Sisters: Were you ever happy you couldn't have male "privileges"?
by Open mind inwatchtower policies clearly make women second-class citizens.
i don't see it changing anytime soon.
this thread is not about how ridiculous it is that a female is not allowed to hand out mags, territory, books or carry a microphone if a qualified male is present.
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Lady Zombie
What didn't I resent?! Although I never had any desire to take on any responsibility, I was always pissed off that it was 'brother this' and 'brother that.' Women were viewed as inferior, and emotional, i.e. the 'weaker vessel.'
So lemme get this straight. As a female, I am so inferior and weak that I can't do something as simple as count out magazines or carry a microphone pole around?!
Dyslexic Brother Magoo up there can barely speak, but the sister who is extraordinarily well spoken can't read the WT paragraphs?!
Oh, and let's not forget how the Society 'praises' the field service work the women do. 'The women are a large army!' Yeah, JW women are who do the bulk of D2D service but the Society just pats them on the head and then ignores them.
And I always hated the dress code. I hated dresses when I was growing up. I think my mother got some kind of perverse joy in finding me the most scratchy uncomfortable dresses to wear. I didn't think it was fair that the men got to wear pants and not worry about showing leg, or getting a run in a pair of pantyhose, or having the wind blow the dress up and then getting counseled for not being mindful by holding your skirt down. Apparently flashing your thighs because of a strong breeze is considered being immodest.
In the JWs eyes, women can only be submissive, obedient weaklings or Jezebels. They aren't thought of as people.